i want to set up how you feel about the debates with a quick sound from newt gingrich and how he views the importance of these debates. >> it has to be campaign of contrast, not attack. >> right. >> part of the contrast has to be disarming the president. because if the president is believable -- this is where clinton was so good. if the president is believable at the end of the first debate, there's a very high likelihood is he going to get re-elected. >> whoa. not just the debate, but the first debate. do you agree? >> sure. i think the first debate is critical because this is their first chance -- our first chance to see the two gladiators in their arena alone, so how they -- who is the alpha dog in this debate? that's what we want to see. if you can't beat the other guy, how can you lead the country? >> you think mitt romney could lose it in this first debate, do you agree? >> i think that the debates are really tough for the incumbent. i think there's a big study done by the -- no, they show the challengers win the debates because it's the first time -- >> john mccain -- >> they ha